Do You Believe Abortion Is Wrong? Should It Be Against The Law?

Anti-abortion advocates. No one cares. You lost. Get over it.

I am comfortable with abortion only up until the first two to three months. And unless there is a case of health of the mother in jeopardy, or a case of the fetus not being viable, I don't see why any woman should not be able to make up her mind in that time period. The more advanced medical science has gotten, the more we know about the existence in utero of the fetus and the earlier we have been able to save babies born very prematurely. This has made me much more wary of later term abortions. However, making abortions illegal will not solve anything, and will only result in more deaths of women from getting illegal abortions. Women have been aborting their babies for thousands of years with or without help, and they are not going to stop just because it's illegal. If we truly want to stop abortions, then we must be in favor of and fight for free contraception, sex education in schools, equal pay for women, and social support for families. These are the programs that will cut down on unwanted pregnancies and/or support an unexpected addition to the family. We cannot be against these programs and also against abortion, it makes no sense. Every abortion is a tragedy in some way, but I would rather an early term abortion than an unwanted child. 

I meant to say also that I am completely against the "Personhood" movement. Life does not begin at the fertilization of an egg. It has not even implanted yet. It is just a collection of cells. By the personhood reasoning even the removal of a wart would be murder.

Life does not begin at the fertilization of an egg. It has not even implanted yet. It is just a collection of cells.

This is the point I have been hoping to get somebody to think about. Minimus disrespectfully dismissed my post on this early on. How can those who oppose all abortion defend the position that a zygote has the same value as a new-born? 

If God didnt make a Law against having sex with your daughter, I dont think he cared about abortion.   Now on a humanist level, Id allow it till 20 weeks or so.

Haven't read the thread (why would I?  it's prolly just a big argument)... but I gotta say....

Diest, I think I love you!

If God didnt make a Law against having sex with your daughter, I dont think he cared about abortion.   Now on a humanist level, Id allow it till 20 weeks or so.

t

( but I would say, don't make women wait past 12 weeks,,, it's usuallly longer sometimes because of the hoopla )

and I think I love you, too, Cofty!

"Can someone tell me of some other moment that takes us from no-life to life?"

Implantation.  An egg can be fertilized by a sperm but unless it successfully implants into the lining of the uterus it won't continue on it's journey towards birth.  From what I've read about 50% of fertilized eggs do not achieve implantation (without benefit of birth control).

Life does not begin at the fertilization of an egg. It has not even implanted yet. It is just a collection of cells. 

So are you, imasheilatoo; just a collection of cells that happen to think they have rights.  Not sure why your particuar collection of cells think that, but I guess they do.  

Implantation.  An egg can be fertilized by a sperm but unless it successfully implants into the lining of the uterus it won't continue on it's journey towards birth. 

 

Let me know if you get tired of playing this game: First grade is when it moves from non-life to life, because if a child doesn't make it to first grade, he won't continue on his journey toward real life.  

 

How can those who oppose all abortion defend the position that a zygote has the same value as a new-born? 

 

Well, I guess it is because newborns derive their value, if we may use the term, from the simple fact that they are human beings.  If you'd care to define a human being in some coherent way that excludes zygotes and includes newborns, comatose people, and forgotten homeless people, then I would like to hear it.  

So what about all those fertilized eggs that didn't achieve implantation?  What about them!

If God didnt make a Law against having sex with your daughter

Leviticus 18:6

"None of you shall approach any one near of kin to him to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD. 

I dont think he cared about abortion.

Genesis 9:5-7 (sanctity of life)

For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning; of every beast I will require it and of man; of every man's brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image. And you, be fruitful and multiply, bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply in it.

Exodus 21:22-25 (causing "miscarriage" is a crime)

When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 (humanity of the pre-born)

Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

A zygote is not an individual new life, it is just a cell, a new unique sequence of DNA, that's all. If it happens to split it may grow into 2 people, identical twins.

I think there is an unspoken religious notion of a unique soul being infused at the moment of conception behind some of the simplistic responses here.

A zygote is not an individual new life, it is just a cell, a new unique sequence of DNA, that's all. If it happens to split it may grow into 2 people, identical twins.

So, you're saying that the potential to separate into more than one numerically distinct humans disqualifies a thing from being human?  Not sure if this is your point or not.

By this logic, you aren't really dead until several days after your hearts stops and you stop breathing, since many of our cells live on for a good while after that happens.  That's just plain dumb.  Think about some of your arguments.

Disturb or, forbid, crack a bald eagle egg, or even its nest,. . . . and you go to jail.  Abort a human baby . . . and it's all legal.

Abortion is a failure of human society collectively and the couple that made the baby as individuals.  Absent incest, rape, or the true health of the mother, I think abortion is terrible.   

On the plus side, abortion gets rid of alot of unwanted babies.  Babies who would grow up in poor situations and might lead to a life of crime.  In the book Freakanomics, the statisticians linked 18/20 years after Rowe v Wade to the marked drop in crime that occured in the 1990s.  It makes sense, and that is what leads me to believe that abortion is a failure of human society and a "fix" for it as well.  So sad.  I truly think that most women do not "gleefuly" have an abortion.  It's done out of necessity as they can't provide for the child.  As the woman in Rowe v. Wade later admitted, her abortion caused her great mental pain for many years.  Again, it's just a failure.

Right now I am dealing with a pregnant, teenage relative about to give birth.  No money, job, etc.  Why did she get pregnant?  The whole family openly told her they'd take her to a doctor to get on birth control.  She refused to go.  She was "embarrassed" to go to the doctor.  These kids don't think things through.  Obviously, a pregnant woman goes to the female doctor alot....and not to mention the birth.  Of course, she "wants" the baby. . . . so, we all hope she and her boyfriend (who is still sticking around) will find an answer.  Honestly, I can see where abortion is an easier fix to this mess.  I see both sides of this issue.

Skeeter

Last night, I learned something new about abortion laws in the UK.

. . .

Abortions for non-medical reasons are legal until 24 weeks, but terminations on grounds of sex of the foetus are illegal under the 1967 Abortion Act.

Doctors must agree that there is a compelling case for termination, but it is claimed that many abortions are agreed “on demand” and that the official paperwork does not fully reflect the discussions that have taken place.

. . .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9100252/Abortion-investigation-Health-Secretary-Andrew-Lansley-to-report-clinics-and-doctors-to-police.html

I think there is an unspoken religious notion of a unique soul being infused at the moment of conception behind some of the simplistic responses here.

This I don't know about.  Could be, but I don't know.  

I'm trying to look at this from an objective, scientific pov... at what point does non-life become life?  The only drastic visible event I can see to change non-life to life is the moment of conception. That many fertilized eggs do not implant, or later spontaneously abort has nothing to do with it.  The beginning of life is perilous.  But a high infant mortality rate does not change the status of infants as being living.  

Peace,

Tammy

"That many fertilized eggs do not implant, or later spontaneously abort has nothing to do with it."

Why not? A girl is born with 2 million follicles that for the most part will never ripen to be released but will be reabsorbed.  Out of those 2 million maybe about 400 will ripen and become eggs.  No sperm no fertilization.  But even if the egg is lucky enough to be fertilized there's only a fifty percent change that ovum will successfully implant.  Some women's bodies aren't equipped to allow implantation to happen.  Oh they can ovulate (which can be verified by basal tempature) and they can track when their cervical mucus is conducive to sperm but if that egg doesn't implant there will be no baby.

I've read that exclusive breast feeding can cause a woman not to ovulation.  I've also read that breast feeding could possibly cause the uterine lining to be insufficient to support a fertilized egg.  Should breast feeding also be outlawed?

If the deciding factor of life is conception then every ovum should implant but every ovum for whatever reason does not implant so where do we go from there?