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- Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
- Help requested for court case
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Help requested for court case
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:35:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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 Post 3648 of 5381 Since 12/18/2010 |
Marci Hamilton writes a lot of excellent law review articles dealing with the Establishment Clause (separation of church and state). I've read hundreds of articles over the years and she is superb. I am eager to read her article.
The 14 year old boy with both bioliogical parents urging transfusion has me very upset. It fuels my sense of powerlessness that I had as a JW child. I always felt that most JW parents liked the state taking the matter out of their hands. The child lives and they can't be disfellowshiped. A court can never overtly rule against JW doctrine. It seems to me (but evidently not the law yet) that even children have personal autonomy over their bodies. Ancient Rome believed that a husband could absolutely murder his wife and children with impunity b/c they were property. My mom was expelled for the flag salute. I dreamed of working on these cases.
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:18:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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  Post 3950 of 4214 Since 12/3/2005 |
I'm sure a divorce attorney will tell you that the "best interest of the child" is the standard that the judge looks for. To win custody. a divorce attorney will probably argue how the JWs harm a child in everyday life. I repeat, every day life. School, being separated from class due to holiday celebrations, feeling different, goal of pioneering/not going to college, beleif that the world is going to end & how that effects life planning & goals, inability to attach to worldly people/teachers/friends as they are going to die soon because of their evil, wicked ways by Jehovah's hands, o sports, no cheerleading, no Honor's Society, etc. This is where you are going to need a divorce attorney who will work with ex-JWs (like ex-elders or Bethelites) to go over these viewpoints as witnesses at the trial. A good divorce attorney will want the judge to see not only how restricting the JW lifestyle is on a child, but also the mental aspects of believing that the world is going to imminently end. Closeley related is showing how the JW parent will verbally slam the non-JW/disfellowshipped parent to the child. Courts don't like to see a parent bashing another parent. Showing, matter of fact, what "apostates" are thought of in the JW religion (mentally diseased, siding with Satan) plus any real life hatred that actually occured between the couple on this matter will be very helpful for the non-JW to win custody. The tricky line is that you can't be seen as bashing the JW parent. On the other hand, many courts will allow a parent to teach the child their religion. Since the JWs are not evil witches who are going to perform sacriments directly on the child, it will likely be a hard battle to get a complete restraining order on the mother from ever taking her children to the Kingdom Hall. The blood issue is an issue, but it's not imminent. The judge could say that all medical decisions have to be made by the non-JW parent. This may be something that you and your divorce attorney insist on right up front. But, the judge could also rule/reason that the blood issue is not presenting itself at the moment, when it does the doctors/child protection will step in to save the child if that event should ever occur. This is where it might be helpful, again, to have ex-elders or an ex-Bethelite as an expert witness to show how JWs will forego needed operations or hide children if the blood transfusion is an issue. I have heard of one ex-elder who charges thousands for an appearance. I can't remember his name. But, supposedly, when he shows up, even a JW attorney representing a divorcing parent will concede. I can't verify this, as it's all hearsay. There are some divorce attorneys who will go into the divorce asking for unreasonable amounts or demands. Does this make them look silly or the client look like control freaks/gold diggers? Perhaps. Other attorneys will reasonably ask for everything they think they can and should win, plus a few more. Do you have a feel for what your attorney's temperment is? Judges HATE to hear religion arguments, especially anti-religion arguments. But if the attorney words it correctly to make it sound like a secular decision . . . then the judge will be more at ease. A JW divorce is not standard work. You married a JW, and now comes the messy part of trying to unravel this mess. It may cost you a small fortune. The WTS attorneys work, many times, for free for the JW in need. They can slam your poor attorney. Skeeter
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:26:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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 Uzbekistan Post 2006 of 2136 Since 2/21/2006 |
I'm sure a divorce attorney will tell you that the "best interest of the child" is the standard that the judge looks for. Except for one outlier state; I think it is W. Virginia that has a statutory provision which in practice results in a rebuttable presumption in favor of the primary caregiver. And yes, the blood issue will be of little value, so you should focus on daily activities and the harm to the parent/child relationship. |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:33:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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Post 3951 of 4214 Since 12/3/2005 |
West Virginia! Thanks, I didn't know that. It explains alot. Now, where is Found Sheep? Ain't she from West Virginia. |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:59:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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 Post 1409 of 1451 Since 6/10/2009 |
Maybe here re the blood issue:
jwfacts.com and ajwrb.org and marvinshilmer.blogspot.com are good beginnings. ajwrb.org http://jws.reslight.net witnessinc.com firstandlast.org jehovahswitnesstruth.com watchman.org freeminds.org freeminds.org freeminds.org freeminds.org freeminds.org freeminds.org soundwitness.org http://en.wikipedia.org religioustolerance.org 4jehovah.org suite101.com bible.ca http://orthocath.wordpress.com http://jehovah.net.au Jehovah's Witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation thejehovahswitnesses.org watchtowerinformationservice.org exjehovahswitness.net mmoutreachinc.com mmoutreachinc.com mmoutreachinc.com associatedcontent.com
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:00:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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Post 1410 of 1451 Since 6/10/2009 |
Child Custody issues and links to some lawyers:
jehovahswitnessesexperts.com mmoutreachinc.com mmoutreachinc.com
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 22:47:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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 Post 298 of 638 Since 5/19/2011 |
First and foremost....you need to get your hands on a copy of the "child custody case" booklet the society gives to "faithful" witnesses that are going through a divorce. I am sure someone on this site has a full copy. At the very least....peruse the above link. It is a response to the booklet by Randy Watters. Very helpful. Basically the booklet encourages witnesses not exactly lie......but evade the truth in court |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:03:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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Post 299 of 638 Since 5/19/2011 |
Here is an egregious example taken from the Child Custody Brochure: "Be careful they (the children) don't get the impression THAT is what the brochure tells the kids to say in court. I would arm your lawyer with that as well as the TRUTH of what is taught: *** w86 8/1 29 Is Your Young Child 'Growing to Salvation'? *** While school counselors will hold out one kind of career, Christian parents can stress goals that will satisfy the child’s growing interest in serving Jehovah, such as pioneering, Bethel, and missionary service. And :
Instead of pursuing full-time secular jobs, thousands have chosen to serve as full-time evangelizers (pioneers). Others serve as foreign missionaries or at branch offices of the Watch Tower Society. |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:31:00 GMT
(12/29/2011)
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 Post 2721 of 3122 Since 11/12/2009 |
You will need to fight for your child in the normal arena of 'child custody' and the JW stuff a side issue. Family courts do not like to get involved in disputes over religion, they are about the child. Be prepared for lots of $$. My lawyer informed both me and my Ex wife that we would spend up to $30,000 each if we didnt come to an agreement. In aust a couple must use mediation services first before anything can go to court. You might aim for full but be realistic that it may go to 50/50 care. Try mediation FIRST! Start with the max and negotiate down, A jw will not like negotiating up however. By about the of 13 a court may be reluctant to issue orders on a child as they are legally old enough to chosse which parent they wish to live with. This is my experiance anyway, perhaps it will help... Oz Oz |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Fri, 30 Dec 2011 01:52:00 GMT
(12/30/2011)
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 Post 161 of 535 Since 3/29/2010 |
Aussie Oz |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Fri, 30 Dec 2011 01:53:00 GMT
(12/30/2011)
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 Post 588 of 712 Since 3/11/2011 |
Thanks a lot all of you for this, it helps a lot. I am not looking for full custody, I love my daughter too much to tear her from either parent. I am looking to have the legal ability to make decisions and to visit her in a sane environment without the quabbles of why our relationship failed or what I'm allowed to say or not. |
thetrueone
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Fri, 30 Dec 2011 02:09:00 GMT
(12/30/2011)
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  British ColumbiaPost 5041 of 6159 Since 9/18/2006 |
I have been refused full visitation by the JW mother for my daughter. That alone is both shocking and disturbing. This is illegal unless your Ex has complete custody, finalized in the courts. Your Ex could find herself in some hot water, if this isn't the case. Get some legal advise, by a good divorce lawyer right away. If she is doing this outside the law, I would file a complaint with your local police. The complaint can actually play in your favor when you do eventually go to court for custody rights.
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:33:00 GMT
(12/30/2011)
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Post 3664 of 5381 Since 12/18/2010 |
The legal fees astound me but the overhead is high. Definitely ask about alternative dispute resolution. Society must come up with a way of either keeping couples together or simplifying its system so people can afford a lawyer without losing everything they have. I would want to act in a sophisticated, mature manner but I fear I would go with juvenile. |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:58:00 GMT
(12/30/2011)
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 Post 636 of 772 Since 6/30/2011 |
Is anyone familiar with jwchildcustody.com is that a trustworthy source of help? |
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Re: Help requested for court case
posted Mon, 23 Jan 2012 00:29:00 GMT
(1/23/2012)
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 Post 99 of 125 Since 10/29/2010 |
anony... I am currently going thru a court custody battle with my jw ex. I am a da'd aspostate. My trial is actually coming up next month after a long process of first trying to work with her directly and then court appointed mediators (2), a guardian ad litum and now the trial. I feel the initial emotional reaction is to try to get full custody and stop your child from ever stepping foot into a kingdom hall. I think that is the wrong course to take. Besides the extra burden that full custody will require as far as a time committment, $ committment and proving the JW's are a imminent daily threat is not easy and you certainly dont want to make the religion the "forbidden fruit" The route I am taking is that my ex is a good mother. I am a good father. I want joint custody and 50/50 placement. I want impasse-breaking authority on medical decisions (i am fine with bloodless alternatives) so that when it comes down to it my kid will get any and all available treatments. I also am asking for impasse-breaking authority on all curricular and extra-curricular activities. I think you said your child was pretty young but as the father all you have to do is get your kids interested in the many opportunities and experiences of school. Throw birthday parties, get a christmas tree, let them participate in boy/girl scouts, sports. Anything they want to try, let them! The best way to really get your kids to not grow up to be a jw is to not raise them as one! My opinion is if JW kids are raised in a bubble it will make sense, if you pop the bubble they will not choose it! POP THE BUBBLE! If they are raised by their mother as a JW and you are allowing them to have a normal life then they will not choose the JW lifestyle. Get copies of mags and brochures that talk about how bad sports are. Show the judge that you only want whats in the best interest of the children. Show them that you want them to have a well rounded fully involved child. Do not go in guns blazing about how destructive the JW's are because it is not going to work. Go thru mediation first! Calmly explain how concerned you are that your children will not be allowed to participate in school activities. Tell the mediator that you are not opposed to bloodless alternatives. Tell them that your child deserves to see both mother and father as much as possible given the situation (50/50) I could go on and on because i am going thru it right now. Hit me up on pm if you have any more questions. good luck pbrow |
Best advice so far and very true!