Yet another child a victim of sexual abuse in my JW family

flipper

 SEXUAL ABUSERS DO NOT CHANGE," is so very true and yet part of the problem in how the WT society doesn't insist on changing their policies.

The thing is that they believe that if a persn says "I'm sorry and won't do it again" then they won't do it again. No amount of prayer, service and meetings will make a sexual predator change. Given the opportunity they will do it again. 

The policy works for them because it requires that they do nothing. They get to sweep it under the carpet and protect their reputation. Meanwhile the abuser is free to continue the abuse or find new victims.

sizemik

I wonder if abusive parents, or those that allow it, have lost (or never had) an appreciation for how profoundly damaging this behaviour is.  Not trying to make excuses for them . . . but if they too have come from a hidden abusive background, then a normal reaction to it is probably not possible.  Of course, the WTS has no such excuse . . . and are constantly guilty of aiding and abetting this practice . . . when they DO in fact know better.

The history of sexual abuse in my family is huge.. .  HUGE. My grandmother had 11 children. The one that I mentioned in the first post who had been sexually abused by my step-father committed suicide shortly after the sexual abuse was discovered. She was 13 yerars old. From the surviving 10 children I had been able to trace down through the next 4 generations and there are over 100 family members who have been sexually abused in my family. It is the norm rather than the exception. There is no normal reaction to it in this family.  It's like getting chicken pox. It happens and you forget about it. No big deal. 

But it is a big deal. A very big deal. Very few of us got the help we needed and stopped the cycle of abuse. MY kids got more than the "Don't talk to strangers or men in cars" talk. I sat them down with their father present and told them that no one had a right to touch them on certain parts of their body or ask them to touch certain parts of the other person's body. And it didn't matter if it was me or their father or uncle or grandpa or  teacher or anyone. And if anyone asked or tried they should tell and keep telling until they got help. The cycle was broken. I know only one other and possibly one or two others from the original 10 children where the cycle was not passed on.

I thought this was one of the exceptions.

BTW I gave my cousin the link to this thread. She is impressed with your responses. Thank you.

Thank you PaintedToeNail (interesting ID) and Jamie.

freetosee. Thanks for your comment even if you didn't read it. I do what I can to help other survivors.

EmptyInside I don't understand it either. Far too many of these women believe that they must stay with these abusers.  Or they keeo marrying men who are abusers.

Grace

You are right. It is a very sick family. I am glad I have so little contact with them. But then someone contacts me and I find one more victim int he family. But I tell you I was shocked about this one. I didn't think they had very much contact because they lived quite a driving distance from each other - enough to be in different congregations. Clearly it wasn't far enough.

I have no idea how many women that one has gone through. It's like a revolving door.

I'm so sorry to hear that, LL.  I understand. 

Lady Lee, Do you now if your mother was sexually abued as a child? I had a friend who was abused as a child who grew up to believe that this is normal behavior in all families.  Her life was really screwed up because of the abuse. I hope all who are abused can get the help and healing they need.

The fathers did the abuse but the mothers closed their eyes and if not condoned certainly turned a blind eye to the possibility of it happening. And far too often the mother blames the child or even worse knew and did nothing.

Lee, IMO these women turn a blind eye to the abuse for one reason: They are needy, stupid women who can't seem to live without a man in their lives and they are willing to sacrifice children's lives and safety, as long as the loser-pig walks comes home at night.  That's truly the only reason I can think of.   Unfortunately, your mother seems to really know how to pick them.

My grandmother's step father tried molesting her when she was about 10 years old.  Fortunately she was very fiesty and she kicked him in the balls so he didn't try it again.  When she went to tell her mother what he tried, her mother beat her for "telling lies".  Dumb, stupid woman who just couldn't live without a man in her life and she was willing to sacrifice her own daughter just to make her own life more comfortable.

Common law marriages did not apply to any shack up. They existed in a handful of Southern states where travel to the county seat was impracticble for poor folk. Common lawm marriages had strict rules. I never understood why common law marriage is considered a marriage, rather than a shack up. If you can make it to the next town, you can't have a common marriage law marriage. And women are usually the victims.

This must be devestating to you. I suppose there is nothing the state will do. When I was young and sorely abused, I fantasized that my generation would be better b/c we were better. We had morals. My JW cousins did not finish high school in their rush to  marry. It truly sickened me. Despite the problems I had, I rejoiced that I was not one of them. Pregnanies --illigetimate children- appeared months before schedule. Despite the scrutiny I faed, it was a ok. They had, after all, married leading brothers. Jokes outside the org. Soon, it made the family rounds that these bastards - now true individuals and bundles from heaven-were being stomped on and beaten.

Man vs. woman. Who is favored? It is a disease that visits generation after generation. Adult Children of Alcholics and Dysfunctional Families teaches it ismultigeneral. Without extreme intervention, it will continue down family lines. I wanted my own family so much. It seemed as tho I would burst. My goal was a little girl that resembled me. Mary Jane shoes, ballet, wide sashes on party dresses, anklets with lace, little girl hair. She would ride horses, study ballet and French. Do all that I was denied. She would live in Paris for several years. Somewhere along the line I realized the danger. Magic does not happen. Next, I realized that I would spent all my years of custody in therapy to be resilient and stop my demons from affecting here. Good grades and life success does  not mean you are home free.

Lady Lee, all I can offer is my sympathy. If it continues, maybe you should see a family law lawyer.

Lee I'm so sorry. 

When I was in therapy for abuse my therapist, Carol, told me there are three roles in an abusive family -- abuser/victim/denier.  Denial and enabling oftentimes come to the same thing, as I've found out to my chagrin the past year.  But it's clear which role in the family your mother plays. 

What is it going to take before my Jehovah’s Witness mother realizes there is something seriously wrong with her? What is it going to take for anyone in the family to realize children are not safe in her car? Oh my mother isn’t the abuser. She is the enabler.

There is nothing, not a burning bush not even if the heavens opened, a flashing neon sign lit up complete with HD video of the abuse.  She does not see because she does not want to see.  None so blind as those who will not see.  How many times have we all debated with active JWs on this board, disproved down to the very DNA of their teachings that The Truth is not true?  And yet many still stay.  My ex-wife was like that, she stayed for 13 years.  My father in law read Ray Franz's book, handed back to me and said "I don't disagree with anything in that book." And yet he stayed.  Till he killed himself.

I will never understand it, but I accept as a reality that there are many people in this life who turn a blind eye.  We all make mistakes, god knows, but these people once they become aware of a problem, once they see there is evil they do make no effort to stop it.  In point of fact, they do the opposite and enable the evil to continue.

To quote Professor Dumbledore -- "We all have the choice between doing what is right and doing what is easy."

My mother knew her c-l husband had a history of sexually abusing his 3 daughters in his first marriage. She had just gotten custody of her younger sister who was 13 and now she had me (11 yrs old)  and she had a daughter with him. Why she never thought he would abuse us is also beyond me to understand. And yes he abused all of us. By this time they were studying with the Witnesses – just studying. The elder was called in both times when she found out about that he was abusing my aunt and I. They recommended that she send us away to live somewhere else and kept him in the home and in the congregation. My sister was 2 at the time. Before she was 3 he started abusing her. This time he disappeared, so nothing was done about reporting him to the police.

Incredible.  I've often wondered how OJ Simpson lives with what he did, late at night when no one is around, no act to perform just he and his memory.  And whatever conscience, if any, exists. 

She knew and yet still took up with this "man".  Disgusting.  Enabler is the kindnest thing to be said about her. 

Oftentimes victims are angrier at the non-abusive parent than they are towards the one who actually raped them. 

A few years later my mother married again. Shortly after the marriage she met one of her new husband’s daughters. They were not invited to the wedding, nor did they have any contact with him. She met them in a restaurant and she told my mother that her new husband had sexually abused her as a child. That is why none of his daughters. I think he had two and a son) had nothing to do with him. So here she was living with another sexual predator. And my sister was living in the home. It didn’t take long before my sister told my mother that he made advances toward her. She was able to fend him off and told my mother. Her response – kick the kid out of the house for making trouble simply because she didn’t like her new step-father.

Again -- incredible.  She's sort of like a heat-seeking missle, just some mindless machine looking for the most dysfunctional predator out there.  Talk about an open door policy.  Absolutely disgusting. 

I don't believe in hell, but I can understand how the concept was invented.  Some crimes are so horrific prison or even death just isn't enough is it?

And besides it's always easier to silence rather than address the problem.  Easy but not right.

Hello! What made her shut her eyes to the possibility he would try it again? He had a history of sexually abusing children! Sexual abusers do not change. Given the opportunity they will do it again.

No predators do not change.  I'm a bleeding heart liberal yet from what I've seen the world would be a better place to simply lock up offenders.  It's a bit like an alcoholic or an addict, except in this case even if you give to the offender the best motives for redemption, look at the consequences if they fall off the wagon. 

But they don't see anything "wrong" in what they do.  They live in abscence of morality and want what they want and often enjoy the pain they inflict.  It is a reality I accept without truly understanding it.  Sort of like algebra.

I feel sick that it happened again. There were other children in her home over the years. How many others were abused there while visiting or while in her care?  I felt sick when I found this out. Now I am angry and sick and oh so sad for that little girl and for all of us who were never safe under my mother’s roof.

And I hurt with you.

If there is anything positive, no matter how small, there are so many more resources available now.  It is so much easier for a child to get help now than it was for us 40 years ago.  We were literally on our own, with no Internet, no Facebook, no chats -- no one to reach out to and even if we did society back then refused to hear us.  That's not the case now.

And isn't the real damage not the physical act but the years of living with the shame and guilt put on us by others?  If the children can get help, sooner rather than later, then the damage done is nothing compared to what we went through.  And yes, it is sad.  Very sad.

Chris

I can relate to everything you said about being abused and what Big Tex said. I hated myself, blamed myself, wished I was dead. I have had thoughts of suicide all my life, I have felt worse then the lowest of scum and I fight those feeling till this day. I truly think I will always feel this way in many ways until I day. And why do I feel this way because I was sexually abused as a child.

But yet I still believed that the JW's had the 'truth' and that they just did not know what truly was happening in my parents home and that I was being abused. Now looking back the elders had to have known. One CO told me even he thought the elders knew more and just looked a blind eye this CO even went so far as to say he wondered if I had blocked out some of the things that happened to me. As a child and young adult I always felt that if the elders had truly known they would have helped me. I closed my eyes I now realize to what the truth really was. I do not know why I did that I wish I knew because I now know the elders could have cared less about me.

I had to wake up to the facts the hard way when we had a sexual abuser move into my current hall and I knew about his past. I truly thought the elders would do the right thing, they would make sure this child molester was never able to harm children. How very, very, very wrong I was.

I will never forget the gut reaching feeling I had when one of the prominent elders in the hall was very, very upset with me over this child molester. This elder told me it was WORLDLY WISDOM for me to say that child molester cannot be cured. Apparently he had to have felt that with Jehovah's help anyone could stop. Why else would this elder have been so mad at me over it. This elder was ever way more upset when I got the PUBLIC court and police records on this child molester. THEY WERE PUBLIC and yet this elder acted like I had committed a crime to even have these records. None of the elders would even take the records expect the PO COBE who took them reluctantly. Finally I mailed all the records to Bethel certified so I know they have them. That really ticked off my elders.

This elder was beyond mad at me because I told a mom in the hall about one of the child molester, this elder called me nothing but a peer gossip and said the the elders would watch the children and NO PARENTS WERE EVER TO KNOW who the CHILD MOLESTERS WERE PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For the parents to know it would be gossiping. THE ELDERS WERE IN CHARGE! I could be DF'ed if I did not keep my mouth shut.

This elder informed me about one of the child molesters in the hall and how he did not even do any crime even though I knew he had been in prison for eight years for raping a eight year old child. When I told the elder that I also knew of this child molesters records the elder  said the child molester brother had meet with the whole body of elders and informed them he did not do the crime but only took the rap for his son so his son would not have to go to prison. This elder acted like that was so very noble of this child molester. 

I was sick, it was like this elder had kicked me in the gut. I was alone with him in his office, which I should never have been. I was married and so was this elder, my husband who was an elder at the time should have been there at the least.

I went home and emailed all the other elders what had been told to me by this elder. The elder was beyond mad at me for that and said what he had told me was in confidence and he had only told me because of how upset I was acting, he felt it would be good for me to know the truth I guess of why this child molester had been in prison and was now holding children at the meetings?

I like what Big Tex says here (It's a bit like an alcoholic or an addict, except in this case even if you give to the offender the best motives for redemption, look at the consequences if they fall off the wagon. 

But they don't see anything "wrong" in what they do.  They live in abscence of morality and want what they want and often enjoy the pain they inflict.  It is a reality I accept without truly understanding it.  Sort of like algebra.) Unlike what that elder told me was just worldly wisdom, its not it is the truth child molesters DO NOT STOP!

None of it made any sense and still does not in how and why Jehovah's Witnesses do and act toward child molesters to hide them and how unkindly they treat those of us who have been hurt by the child molesters.

Reading your OP Lady Lee is like reading parts of my life. I have been to counseling, I have been on meds, I have joined support groups, etc. My medical doctor told me that for me to get better I had to stay away from the meetings because they were what was making me sick and that there was no pill to fix that. My doctor told me being around child molesters and elders who deafened them was just not good for me mentally the only way to get better was to stay away. I have just come to the conclusion that  I guess I will always be sad, every day is a fight for me. I have to work to enjoy life, to not wish I was dead. It is a constant struggle that I fight in my mind every minute of the day where I have to think to myself over and over I want to be happy, I do not want to be sad, I have a right to life just like everyone else in this world. If I give in I want to die because I feel I do not deserve life. Why do I have this struggle? Why do I have to fight for life its all because of child molesters being able to run free, and they truly run free in this religion.

LITS 

Dear lady Lee, sex predators can be changed.

A 7.62 does it permanently.

Sorry I did not get back in here last night. I am still so angry about this.

Thanks talesin and longHairedGal

wiser My mother is one of the 100+ victims in this family. And yes they think this is normal - not good but normal. Doesn't eveybody fool around with little kids?

Mary The odd thing is that my mother knows she does better without a man in her life. She married thos last husband because she wanted sex. Turns out he wasn't all that interested in sex with an adult.  My mother was warned about her step-father and was able to stop him but when she told her mother she was beaten like your grandmother. There is one school of thought that if a child was sexually abused and had no way to cope with it then when thir children are being abused they still don't know how to cope with it. Thank goodness most people who were abused vow to make sure any child they know will be protected. 

Band on the Run

Laws are a bit different here in Canada and even in Quebec from the rest of Canada. 3 years living together or 1 year and a child constitute a common-law marriage. Now no one pays much attention to it.

The most recent discloure is about an abuse that happened over 20 years ago. So no I doubt nothing woulkd be done. The abuser is now in his late 80s or early 90s and is blind, doesn't go anywhere and I doubt there are any children who visit the home. Historically JWs do not socialize too well with JWs who are married to non-believers.  Even the JWs in the family don't socialize with her. They don't like her very much.

BT (long time since I have used that here)

MY mother loves to play the role of the victim but mostly she lives in the land of denial which helps her to be a good JW. If she can deny it then she doesn't have to deal with it. And like I said abo=ve she doesn't have the tool to deal with it and insn't interested enough to learn. She is 79 and has all the wisdom she needs from teh pages of WT publications.

She's sort of like a heat-seeking missle, just some mindless machine looking for the most dysfunctional predator out there. 

Yup that is the funniest but most honest description of her I have ever seen. She attracts it like a magnet.

She told me she thought he was just being a gentleman and honoring her wishes not to have sex until after the marriage. I thought his lack of interest was the alcohol. Now I think I know a better reason. She had a kid in the home and had grandchildren visit the home.

I think they should make a town where they can work and live and take care of themselves without the taxpayers money. Surround it with a wall they can't get through, over, under, or around and leave them there.

She got therapy thank goodness. Many of us - well it just wasn't available like you said. I was in my 30s before peopleeven began talking about it. She is young and is doing well.

Thanks

life is too short

I want you to know something. It doesn't have to hurt forever. I used to be very suicidal. Thought about it all the time. Had my plans made up - I was ready. But then I realized I didn't want to be dead. I wanted the pain to stop. So I left the JWs and the abusive elder/husband and got therapy. Int he 20+ years since then I have not thought about suicide once. Not once. 

When my sister committed suiced 6 years ago my GP did a risk assessemtn on me. It was kind of funny because as a retired counselor I knew what she was doing and appreciated her effort. I wasn't suicidal in the least. Just sad that my sister saw no other way out of the pain. She refused to get the help she needed that might have turned her life around.

I live with chronic pain that sometimes takes so much out of me it hurts to breathe. Even that doesn't make me think of suicide. I know it will end soon.

The one thing that maybe make me think aout it is something I won't ever allow again. I can't handle feeling trapped. There is always a way out and I know I have the strength and ability to find the way out. 

You are here. You also have th eability to change your life to make it better than it was and to avoid abusive relationships that have the power to make you feel trapped with no way out. 

Every day find the one thing that makes you feel good even if it is just for a few minutes. It doesn't matter how big or small that one thing is. But if you begin to look for those good things before long you will see there are more good things out there than you reakize.

Right now you are free. You have the freedon to think, feel, act, and live any way you want. YOU have to be your first priority. And if YOU as a little kid could learn to survive then YOU as an adult can learn to live well.

yes zeb a bullet would do it but unfortunately that is rarely the justice that is meted out in a court of law

I am sorry to hear about this ... sorry but mothers can be such monsters sometimes too ... hard to accept but reality is that we are all fallen ... that's why I made up my mind to start my own Family Tree ... and it starts with me ... I also everyday try to be a better disciple of Jesus, to be redeemed, lifted up in him ... so sad to hear stories like this ... the damage done is huge ...

Tell the world about it, don't keep silence, even if people doesn't ask me I bring the subject of sexual abuse and mention how big the problem is among JWs too.  I put in chat rooms, blogs, comments, everywhere I go. My niece was a victim. 

BT (long time since I have used that here)

I know LL.  Takes me back to the good old days.

My mother loves to play the role of the victim but mostly she lives in the land of denial which helps her to be a good JW. If she can deny it then she doesn't have to deal with it. And like I said above she doesn't have the tool to deal with it and insn't interested enough to learn. She is 79 and has all the wisdom she needs from teh pages of WT publications.

That's the role of the non-offending parent isn't it?  If the offender doesn't have a partner who covers up the crime, the crime cannot continue.  There can be no sustained abuse if there is an even barely functional parent who cares about the child.  The offender needs someone who turns a blind eye to anything and everything.

As for the denier, my experience is once in that role they stay that way the rest of their life.  It is easier for them to continue to deny because there is so much fear at their core.  I believe fear is a big motivating factor for them to embrace denial.  Well that a self-absorption, someone who thinks of themselves.  If you're afraid  and if you are focused on yourself is it any wonder they give up their own child?

She told me she thought he was just being a gentleman and honoring her wishes not to have sex until after the marriage. I thought his lack of interest was the alcohol. Now I think I know a better reason. She had a kid in the home and had grandchildren visit the home.

That's what she tells herself so she can live with her part in what happened.  Again she knew then and she knows now and yet all she can do is offer some lame excuse.  She really is a piece of work.  She reminds me quite a lot of my mother who walked in on a rape and turned right around and walk out without lifting a finger to stop it.  I think your mother has learned how to change history, twist facts and "remember" things in as positive a spin towards her as possible.  Sounds like someone else I know.

I think they should make a town where they can work and live and take care of themselves without the taxpayers money. Surround it with a wall they can't get through, over, under, or around and leave them there.

Either way, we agree there is no possibility of rehabilitation.  Getting them out of society is the only answer.  I used to think a century from now that was possible.  Now I'm a bit more cynical.  I don't know if we're ever going to get to that point.  But on the plus side the concept of predatory abuse is much more accepted now so who knows.  Hopefully the percentage of children being abused has gone down.  I would think so, given what we know has happened with the taboo approach.

I will say if she's still reading this thread or to any other victim, it does get better.  It's hard and unfair to clean up someone else's mess, but the pain does lessen and the wound does start to scar over.  All that crap inside has got to come out before healing can take place.

Chris

Life to short....Praying for you nightly.... Lee! I called Sue & read your comments.

She kept saying Yes thats right on... Sends her love!!!!

Lady Lee,

So sorry for all the things that happened to you and to the members of your family. How wonderful that you are able to help others, and have risen above your past to accomplish many important things in the way of aiding victims of abuse.

(because it happened to your mother she should have been determined to stop the cycle of abuse for her children!)

Thank you for your thoughts Bella

BT

If the offender doesn't have a partner who covers up the crime, the crime cannot continue.  There can be no sustained abuse if there is an even barely functional parent who cares about the child.  The offender needs someone who turns a blind eye to anything and everything.

Just lile the WTS. If a parent can put the child before the organization the child has a chance of protection. The dynamics of abuse are the same regardless of whether it is a family or a religion or anything else.

As for the denier, my experience is once in that role they stay that way the rest of their life.  It is easier for them to continue to deny because there is so much fear at their core.  I believe fear is a big motivating factor for them to embrace denial.  Well that a self-absorption, someone who thinks of themselves.  If you're afraid  and if you are focused on yourself is it any wonder they give up their own child?

Sort of like a defective survival mechanism. Even animals will protect their young by giving up their lives - survival of the young would take precedence over survival of the parent. Sinking ships insist on women and children first. But not with these women. They are willing to abandon the children on the ship as they climb into the lifeboat.

Thanks Grace I emailed her so she has a bit more info now.

Quandry Some women never get there. My mother was involved withn 3 child predators. Clearly there is soimethign seriously wrong with her. I know that I do far better without her in my life.